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The media and Destiny

Comment from New Zealand Christian Network, visionnetwork, re current media attention on Destiny Church

From Glyn Carpenter, National Director, New Zealand Christian Network, visionnetwork.

1. Recent media attention on Destiny Church has focused mainly on money. There is a lot more to Church and the message of Jesus Christ than money, and there is more to Destiny Church than just money, so the money issue needs to be kept in balance.

2. As far as the money issue is concerned, attention has focused on gifts and tithing, eftpos machines, large incomes, and lavish lifestyles.

3. Let's dispense quickly with the concerns expressed about eftpos machines - they are simply a convenient way for some people to give money in an increasingly cashless society. Destiny is one of many churches in a wide variety of denominations that currently use eftpos, and the practice is likely to increase. Generally, the eftpos machines are located outside the main worship area.

4. All churches depend on financial gifts, whether they are from Sunday offerings or other sources, and many teach the principle of tithing. People gather in churches and agree to pay for what they have decided to do together. Some churches teach tithing as another term for "whatever you choose to give". Others would encourage a regular commitment to a percentage which may range from 1 per cent to 10 per cent. In addition, many churches derive some revenue from activities and assets, for example, hall rentals or parking facilities. Older established churches frequently have substantial property assets from which they derive income. In this respect Destiny is no different. The money is used for salaries of ministers and other staff who provide a wide range of services for church members and their wider communities. It also goes to fund infrastructure and gifts to people in need in local communities and around the world.

5. With regard to tithing and donations, the Bible teaches that "God loves a cheerful giver". If anyone in a church is not giving cheerfully, they may as well not give. When it is truly God who leads people to give, there is a joy and freedom in the giving.

6. There is also a responsibility in giving. The Bible specifically warns against giving to church if it causes a person to neglect family responsibilities. Similarly, it warns against church leaders who coerce or manipulate people into doing it (see the book of Matthew, chapter 15 verses 5 7). We know of people in poorer communities who are encouraged, or more correctly coerced, into giving to their church or pastor even when this causes hardship for the family. This is not general Christian practice. If someone concludes they are being manipulated or coerced to give, it may well be time to find another church.

7. Destiny points to Scripture which talks about honouring pastors and those who lead them, which all Christians do, or should do. At the discretion of the individual, this may include gifts. But Christians also need to read Scripture as a whole. There can be distortion, even heresy, if one teaching is taken in isolation, out of context, or emphasised more than it should be. Points #5 and #6 above give some examples of the balance which Scripture teaches.

8. Large incomes of themselves say little, provided they have not been derived from any practice which is out of sync with God, for example, #5 and #6 above, or any illegal, immoral, or unjust activity. Many people with large incomes give away large percentages of those incomes. Charity is a basic principle of Christian living. When understood and practised properly, this results in blessing for all concerned.

9. Lavish lifestyles are a problem. In New Zealand we live in a beautiful land which has been richly blessed by God, and it is good to enjoy those blessings. In comparison with people who live in poorer countries, we all live lavish lifestyles. However, Scripture teaches Christians we have been blessed in order to be a blessing to others. Christians also believe in justice. There is no justice when the rich get richer at the expense of the poor. If pastors' salaries are seriously out of sync with the community in which they serve, most discerning people will view this as a matter of injustice which does not honour God.

10. Lastly, there is a heresy which has been around for a long time in the Church and in fact has its roots in the time before Jesus. This heresy is known as the prosperity gospel. It teaches that if you give financially to God, or your church, or your pastor, then you will necessarily receive back financially more than you gave. (There is also a health version of this heresy.) There are indeed scriptures which talk about devotion to God that results in receiving blessing from God, about sowing and reaping bigger rewards, and so on. But error occurs when Scripture is not read as a whole (see #7 above) and parts of scripture are taken out of context. Christians believe God is the ultimate reality, a sovereign being, not some clockwork toy that we can force to respond in a certain way by doing certain things. Yes, we believe God does bless and reward good acts. But a full reading of Scripture shows this is not as simple as giving $10 and getting back $30, $60, or $100 (see Matthew chapter 13 verse 8). Nevertheless, it is not difficult to see how vulnerable, needy people and sometimes very healthy people could be influenced by such teaching.

One of the names Jesus used for himself was the "Light of the World". Christians are called to "walk in the light" and New Zealand Christian Network, visionnetwork, respects the role that the media play in our society in bringing issues into the light, possibly unaware of how closely this aligns with Christian teaching.

There is invariably more to a story, however, than what is known at any given time. We hope the above will be of some help in bringing a better understanding of the Christian story into that same light.

Christians are followers of Christ, His teachings and His example. Jesus Christ lived sacrificially on behalf of a community he loved. Anything contrary to that spirit is contrary to the calling of following Christ.

6 Comments

  1. Well reasoned moderate article Glyn, but not the sort of stuff one of the Sons of Thunder would have written, and frankly, we need some more thunder. There are some serious issues afoot in Destiny and my gut feeling is this entity - some might call it disparaginingly "a franchise" - will end in tears. We lack discernment and robust debate in the church in NZ which allows all sorts of rubbish to be promulgated in Jesus' name bringing dishonour to Him. Where are the Augustines, the John Knox's, the John Wesleys, the Charles Finney's tackling the nonsense and self adulation Brian heaps on himself along with the other rubbish we all endure? As a Body, surely we are all accountable to one another? Otherwise we are easy victims of that roaring lion.
  2. As to Poli's comment on not having paid leaders, does he mean they should work and in their spare time lead the church? just fine for a group of 50 or less. The chances are it would never grow more than that as most Bretheren churches discovered, it takes so much prayer, dream time, planning as well as Pastoring to heal people who will eventually grow the church so there are even more people needing more time. If it did grow you become a slave to the church doing 2 full time jobs (are you serious)I would suggest Poli you have never been in church leadership and really have no idea what it involves. You carry the call and vision of God, if others gather round you in support then everyone benefits from your God given gifts. Hope that Helps, God bless M
  3. just to comment on Pastors being paid 1 Cor9 is a chapter in the New Testiment devoted to the subject. Not to mention that Jesus also recieved offerings. God Bless You Poli
  4. Some good points but your reference to "church" being a building and going to a building is not church on of itself. The whole body is the church. It would nice to get our words right here when talking about destiny gathering, it is not a church but a gathering of believers. Also show me anywhere in the new test. where pastors are the main leaders and are paid? To set things right as you say regarding tithing which is also not taught in the new test. we should stop paying pastors wages.
  5. Thanks Glyn for a full explanation which makes things a bit clearer. I dont want to point a finger at Destiny church but coming back to your #7 when they pointed to Scripture re honouring pastors n those who lead them...Is this ring with the pastor's name on it can be said as a way of showing how they honour their pastor?...If so, wouldnt be more realistic to put Jesus name rather than the pastor?..
  6. Well written Glyn. You've managed to demonstrate the relevant areas of commonality between Destiny & other churches (eg eftpos machines, giving etc), to try to get the focus off these. you've also managed to kindly indicate areas where other churches tend to differ from Destiny, without specifically throwing stones at anyone. Well done

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